5.10 Rant Rant Ranty McRantpants

[coyotesuspect]

Okay, I'm probably going to delete this later and offer up a better reaction, because I really enjoyed the episode as a whole. Rant's staying up. My reaction is my reaction. (And, I'd like to reiterate, I thought this was a great episode. I still have issues.)

However.

Can we talk about how much Supernatural sucks with women?

Because. Ugh. I knew there were going to be two deaths. And I was pretty sure one of them was going to be Ellen. And fine, all right. Whatever.

But then, we kill off Ellen and Jo. Because, really, women are only good for sacrifice! And unless they're sacrificing themselves for men, they're evil temptresses who are leading you into sin and darkness!

Yes. It was a great scene. It was heart-wrenching and beautiful and I bawled.

But. Then we get that scene in the cemetery, where Lucifer's all, "Oh, I was very merciful. One demon for every able-bodied man."

SHOW. SHOW. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE WHAT YOU JUST SAID? DO YOU REALLY LACK THAT MUCH SELF AWARENESS?

I am just so fucking mad right now, and what makes it even worse is that this was such a great episode. BUT SHOW'S SKEEVY FUCKING GENDER ISSUES ARE GETTING IN THE FUCKING WAY.

I mean, Supernatural has some wonderful female characters. They're compelling. They're beautiful. They're strong. They're intelligent. AND THEN THEY'RE ALL EVIL OR DEAD OR BOTH.

Ugh. On the other hand, Castiel grew on me a lot. And can I just say, Castiel/Meg? UNF. I SHIP IT. I SHIP IT.

Right. It's done. It's out of my system. Though, I think I'm gonna have to sign up for spn_women out of spite now.

Oh, also. Does anyone have a clue what happened in the end? One moment, Sam and Dean are in the cemetery, and Castiel's creeping around (such a creeper this ep, omg Cas), and Lucifer's summoning Death (also, SHOW. Dozens of Reapers and no Tessa? I'd be mad, except YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE KILLED HER OFF IF SHE HAD SHOWN UP), and then commercial break, and BAM! We're at Bobby's.

Did Castiel beam them out? If so, where the hell is he? WHAT IS GOING ON?

Previews for after the hiatus look super-interesting. I can't believe we have to wait that long though. : /

tl;dr: Ellen and Jo were both amazing this episode. They were great characters, and I adored them both, and I'll miss them greatly. *curls up with No Exit. * That's right, No Exit.

I'm out.

Comments

[electrumqueen.livejournal.com]

UGH UGH UGH I KNOW. IT THREW ME OUT OF -EVERYTHING-.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

UGH. SUCH AN EPIC EPISODE, AND YET.

AND YET. D

[familiardevil.livejournal.com]

):

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

*points to icon*

):

[wonky.livejournal.com]

Castiel beemed them out, I think. He knocked down Meg and then he was all "Shhh" and there was a flash and Lucifer turned and looked where Sam and Dean used to be or something. IDK I'm going off memory....

Ellen and Jo. CRIES. I wanna watch No Exit now too! IDGAF what fandom as a whole thinks, I've alwaaaaaaaaays loved Jo. If she had to die then I'm glad that she (and Ellen) got to go out fighting and being a badass.

There were previews for after the hiatus???? Damnit! I thought they wouldn't show anything so I missed it! Grrrrrrrrr.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

Oh, okay. Thanks!

If she had to die then I'm glad that she (and Ellen) got to go out fighting and being a badass.
I loved the manner of their deaths, I just hate the fact that they died. *sigh*

Yeah, there was a preview for 5.11. I think it looks really cool, but I seem to be the only one excited about it. *g*

[little-missmimi.livejournal.com]

SHOW.

UGH, SHOW.

ARE THERE NO WOMEN WRITERS ON STAFF? IF THERE ARE, WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY? THE GENDER!FAIL IS ASTOUNDING.

THERE IS A TEENY BIT OF CASTIEL/MEG IN MY EP CODA THAT I STARTED 20 MINUTES AGO WHICH ONLY HAS 42 WORDS.

ALSO: STOP TEMPTING ME WITH FIC EXCHANGES! YOU ARE A FUCKING SIREN OR SOME SHIT.

[akeyoftime.livejournal.com]

To be fair, it's not the women writers' responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen. The male writers could and should be proactive about writing women too.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

There's Gamble. : / But she's the only one I can list off the top of my head.

I WANT TO READ YOUR CODA WHEN IT IS FINISHED.

*lures you into depravity and sin and fic exchanges*

[smallearthcat.livejournal.com]

Dude, I was thinking the same thing re: women and gender issues. And that's one of those things I hardly ever notice (at least the first time I'm watching something), so it had to have been really damn blatant.

I, too, was confused about the scene jump at the end. I was expecting some sort of mad escape in the last few minutes, not them burning the picture at Bobby's.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

Same, same, same. I normally try not to let TV bother me this much, but this was just... too much. :/

[cacklesthewitch.livejournal.com]

I totally missed the creeping Cas thing, so like you I'm lost.

I would totally love an explanation as to why they either keep killing off strong women in this show or making them evil bitches.

KRIPKE?

Btw, yes to Ellen and Jo. They went out like heroes. I bawled like a baby, especially when it was just the two of them at the end (their end, anyway).

The boys needed Ellen as much as Bobby - she was the closest thing to a mother figure they've known (well, it's certainly true for Sam). WHY DID THEY HAVE TO TAKE HER AWAY?!?!?!?!?!

I'm so conflicted over this episode, but I still love Show!

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

The boys needed Ellen as much as Bobby - she was the closest thing to a mother figure they've known (well, it's certainly true for Sam).
I agree completely.

I'm so conflicted over this episode, but I still love Show!

Me too! I loved the episode, but I hated this part, and overall, Show still owns my soul.

[cherie-morte.livejournal.com]

I totally get why you're upset, even thogh this is kind of exactly what was hoping for because Show does manage to screw up gender, race, and basically any other minority group, as much as I love it. But now I will define this line:

"Oh, I was very merciful. One demon for every able-bodied man."

The women and children were the forst to go because that's how the horseman wanted it, probably because he sees their lives as more valuable?

And yeah, Cas beamed them out, but I found that way confusing and badly done, too.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

I think my objections to that line were unclear, because a lot of people have said the same thing.

My problem isn't that Lucifer killed off all the women and children. He's evil, I get it.

My problem is, we're supposed to see Lucifer killing off all the women as proof that he is a Bad Guy. Yet, show goes and kills off all the women too.

So, Lucifer killing off all the women = omg, he' so evil!
the writers killing off all the women = what, exactly?

It's either an extreme lack of self-awareness, or a really horrible sense of humor.

[kathickers.livejournal.com]

And the fact that, in the end, their sacrifice didn't make a bit of difference? Suckity suck suck.

So, all our girl hopes have to hang on Meg now? Pretty sure she's the only female left...

*points to icon* SPN's first second dead!girl does not approve.

Know what you mean though--the episode as a whole was great, but... ELLEN! JO! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[meiou-set.livejournal.com]

I thought Meg was done in too. Extra crispy with the supa-holy oil. *hopes*

[ex-wildcardb167.livejournal.com]

THIS SFM.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

Makes me wanna castrate a bitch dick. >(

[meiou-set.livejournal.com]

GET OUT OF MY MIND. OUT. OUT. OUT.

Because I agree with EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAID.

1) The women thing OMG RIDIC. Not just Jo, not just Meg, but add in oh, I don't know, ELLEN and how about ALL THE WOMEN OF THE TOWN.

2)Castiel/Meg. Wow. I SHIP IT TOO. HARD. If you wrote that I would read the shit out of it. Trufax.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

I LIKE YOUR MIND. IT HAS GOOD THOUGHTS. *stays*

I'm so conflicted over this episode, but I still love Show!
God, yes. SHOW. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WE'RE APPROACHING THE LEVEL OF PARODY?

*thinks about Meg/Castiel and calms down*

[emeraldsedai.livejournal.com]

I'm right with you. Don't delete this post (please?). I am in such cognitive dissonance with Show that I can unironically term this episode one of the ten best in terms of writing, pacing, direction, acting--and at the same time want to eat my fucking EYEBALLS over the damn misogyny!

Dead women. Evil girls. "Women and children first" into Lucifer's mass grave. WTFF, Show? WTFF?

Last week fandom became male. This week two of the best female characters (well hell, two of the ONLY female characters) bit the dust. Okay, heroically, but dead heroines are still dead, sacrificing themselves on the Altar of Winchester.

I'm just so glad I'm not the only one. The fans I share the show with don't see it or don't want to and get all testy when I point it out, and I really don't want to ruin SPN for them. But I can't go another season like this. The cognitive dissonance is getting to me.

So here's an icon of a real female hero character.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

I've decided to keep it, actually. *g* I'm just always leery about posting rants, because I don't want to harsh everyone else's squee.

Ugh, I love this Show, and I love this episode (because it was pretty, omg!awesome), but the repeated gender!fail just makes me want to scream.

I'm just so glad I'm not the only one.
Definitely not. *g*

And, fuck yeah! Zoe Washburne! God, I love her so much. (I actually named my old iPod after her. >>)

*uses her Martha Jones icon*

[akeyoftime.livejournal.com]

NOT TO MENTION SKEEVY FUCKING ABLEIST ISSUES

Like the media needed to reiterate its opinion on how useless people with disabilities are.

(Edited for typos.)

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

Well, I mean, able-bodied men are the only one's worth anything, right?

*facepalms*

*rages*

[moodswingers.livejournal.com]

SHOW. SHOW. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE WHAT YOU JUST SAID? DO YOU REALLY LACK THAT MUCH SELF AWARENESS?
IDK which option is worse - utter lack of awareness or doing this shit on purpose. OTOH, it was a Ben Edlund episode, so it's actually refreshing that no women were raped it too. Most of his episodes feature completely gross consent issues.

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

I don't know which is worse either. :/

I just realized Edlund is also responsible for OtHoaP. Which, okay, only a little bit of gender fail, but is also the only episode in the entire series that I actually dislike.

[stubbel.livejournal.com]

Ugh. On the other hand, Castiel grew on me a lot.

IT'S DONE! :D

Anyway, I enjoyed the episode A LOT. I don't know what it's about this hopeless, apocalyptic setting but I seem to get kicks out of it. *headdesk*

And you're SO right about the whole Supernatural-women thing. :( It's probably one of the show's weakest points and it bugs the hell out of me. ><
I think I mentioned this before in that angel-falling/torture discussion comment but I think Lucifer is pretty much still stuck in the past so I can chalk his line about "women and children before men" up to him being an angel and practically out of the world for a looooong time.

Doesn't change that Supernatural + Women = Fail

About that weird scene-change at the end; I'm pretty sure Cas beamed them out.
He went to go on a date (coffee and chocolate cake) with Meg afterward, clearly that's why he wasn't around. ;)

I WILL MISS ELLEN AND JO, I LOVED THEM SO MUCH ;_;

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

Hey, hey, I said grew on me. Let's not jump to hasty conclusions or anything here. :P

He actually was growing on me a lot earlier this season, and then he made that comment to Sam in "the Children Are Our Future" and he lost all the ground he'd made up. ):

But I really appreciated his loyalty this episode.

*warily draws non-sparkly, somewhat small hearts around him*

Ahaha, I don't think my objection to the Lucifer line was clear. So I'll just cp what I said to [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com]:

My problem isn't that Lucifer killed off all the women and children. He's evil, I get it.

My problem is, we're supposed to see Lucifer killing off all the women as proof that he is a Bad Guy. Yet, show goes and kills off all the women too.

So, Lucifer killing off all the women = omg, he' so evil!
the writers killing off all the women = what, exactly?

It's either an extreme lack of self-awareness, or a really horrible sense of humor.

I like the idea of Cas going out on a date with Meg very much. He had to be a gentleman and apologize for using her as a bridge.

I WILL MISS THEM TOO. <3

[pada-something.livejournal.com]

I'm skipping everything because I don't want to be spoiled, but just saying that even though I appreciate senseless the "<3" after my name, that isn't my name. XD

I mean, username. As in, with the icon in the credits. :BBBB

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

D: That's not by you? I have it saved as being by you...

[scorpiod1.livejournal.com]

You already know I agree, bb. I love my show so fucking much, but they fail at women. Though I took what Lucifer said as a sign of his age, you know, from the time where they stoned women to death for adultery. Plus, he's the bad guy.

I really, really liked this ep and loved the way Jo and Ellen went out but yeah, skeevy gender issues. *fist bump*

Although, spn_women yay?

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

Re: the Lucifer line, cp'ing what I said to [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com]:

My problem isn't that Lucifer killed off all the women and children. He's evil, I get it.

My problem is, we're supposed to see Lucifer killing off all the women as proof that he is a Bad Guy. Yet, show goes and kills off all the women too.

So, Lucifer killing off all the women = omg, he' so evil!
the writers killing off all the women = what, exactly?

It's either an extreme lack of self-awareness, or a really horrible sense of humor.

I really, really liked this ep and loved the way Jo and Ellen went out but yeah, skeevy gender issues. *fist bump*
XD Pretty much how I feel.

Yeah, just signed up. *sigh* familiar and I are pretty sure we're gonna end up with each other, since we asked for basically the same things. XD

[taintedlove.livejournal.com]

Whoa, curled up with NO EXIT? You must be a sad coyote right now. :(
;)

Yeah, I noticed that... Why do they kill off all the girls? It's upsetting. :(

But yeah... CAS/MEG OMG THE SEXUAL TENSION. For a minute there I thought I was looking at Sam and Dean.

*hugs you tight*

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

I feel better now that I've had some time to distance myself. <3

But yeah... CAS/MEG OMG THE SEXUAL TENSION. For a minute there I thought I was looking at Sam and Dean.

LMAO!

*hugs back and doesn't let go*

[heartsonwings.livejournal.com]

SO EPIC IT WAS

[coyotesuspect.livejournal.com]

EPIC INDEED IT WAS.